Archer self buff change.

[Happie]

Hello, I've been playing alot of 160 content for the past two-three weeks and I've noticed one thing that I honestly really believe should be adjusted (this is an issue at 200+ aswell but not as big as in 160 content).

 

The issue is rather simple: Archer's AP & mdef values.

The archer is an extremely high damage class we all know that, but what makes it extremely broken in 160 is it's ability to double their magic defense, making them virtually impossible to kill in a 1v1 or even 2v1 for mages.
They're able to hit about 40% of a mage's health (with a normal pvp build, not tank build) with a single critical hit while still having a double mdef buff,

while the mage's damage is reduced by 25-30% from them using the mdef buff, how come they only lose around 10% of their ap? It's honestly extremely overpowered when you face a mage, while a mage who wants to be tanky vs mdef can use a mdef garm/gown they have to sacrifice more then 50% of their physical defense to do so, so why can the archers get such a huge defensive boost without any real downside while other classes has to sacrifice extreme amounts of something to buff another in the same way.

The two options I see would change the balance of an archer's insane tankability & damage output would be

 

1. Adjust the ap modifier from dex points, decrease it so their overall ap gain from points are lowered and then increase the ap modifier of their self damage buff, this could put them at the same ap as they were originally but that means they have to either choose between losing a large portion of their damage, to survive almost any magic attack thrown at them, like other classes.

2. Simply remove the ability to use the turf cash magic defensive buff and their sylph buff at once. I'd say this is the more logical choice considering that no other class that has self buffs are allowed to do this, so how come archers can?

[JDEKIS]

It's been a while since I last played, but I'd say TC buffs on nado are OP in general. All classes are very hard to kill on nado, especially if you're alone. Although a 2v1 with two mages against an evenly geared archer shouldn't be a problem as long as the mages are coordinated. But yea, TC buffs on nado has been a problem since this game released.

[Mr1Guy]

Yeah, when you take everything into account such as AP Buffs not being stackable with any other class as they are with Archers, same for MDef Buffs, they are an absolute insane class that needs some serious rethinking and balancing. 

[JDEKIS]

2 hours ago, Mr1Guy said:

Yeah, when you take everything into account such as AP Buffs not being stackable with any other class as they are with Archers, same for MDef Buffs, they are an absolute insane class that needs some serious rethinking and balancing. 

 

Not true. This isn't a 1v1 game, especially not at higher levels. 200+ anyone is hard to kill 1v1 unless you outgear them by a lot. Archers are squishy, and there are several ways to kill them. Compare that to a BM who can have shit gear and still not die while being stunned and having a mana weapon on his ass. But there are ways to kill them too, and just because it's hard to kill a BM, it doesn't mean that a BM is op. Same with archer, depends on what built they got. If an archer has a vig build, then ofc they are harder to kill. I'd be pissed if I sacrificed 300-500 AP to stay alive longer and still got my ass beat.

[Dynamix]

I can say after maining archer for a looong time, and now playing rm for a while, and basically playing every class there is, multiple times on nado. That Archers is the most "viable" class, its tanky and does hella lot of damage. My idea to it, would be making Sylph and TC Mdef Buff not stackable. This would make archers less of a tank (at least vs mages) and more of just a heavy hitting class, which archers (at least in my opinion) are meant to be. There is a reason 95% of the game is currently playing Archers. And this is one of the reasons.  

[Happie]

15 hours ago, JDEKIS said:

 

Not true. This isn't a 1v1 game, especially not at higher levels. 200+ anyone is hard to kill 1v1 unless you outgear them by a lot. Archers are squishy, and there are several ways to kill them. Compare that to a BM who can have shit gear and still not die while being stunned and having a mana weapon on his ass. But there are ways to kill them too, and just because it's hard to kill a BM, it doesn't mean that a BM is op. Same with archer, depends on what built they got. If an archer has a vig build, then ofc they are harder to kill. I'd be pissed if I sacrificed 300-500 AP to stay alive longer and still got my ass beat.

 

You are indeed correct there but at the same time you fail to see the issue with the stacking of mdef, the tc scroll gives +10% of your mdef, i would believe its the base mdef and not the max mdef, so a archer in just plain +8 gear has 380% mdef, the tc buff then gives +38% mdef.

Sylph on the other hand gives a whole +100%, and it's an extremely high amount and then adding an addition 38% (i would imagine its even more if you have jewelry equipped)
to this makes it even stronger, it makes it quite easy for an archer to reach close to 600% mdef with mediocre jewelry while still tossing out enough damage to 2-3 shot players with crits without even being hit by a DC.

 

The reason as to why this really bothers me is because as a mage with a +10 wep & better damage jewelry (i can admitt he has better defensive values than me, and i dont expect to beat him, but the damage reduction is abit too big.) then my opponent, to the point where if they does not use mdef buffs at all, i can stack them out in 2 spells + fire fury, to then using mdef where i have to land a whole stack on them to take them down, to then stacking double mdef where they can still easily kill me with three shots, where as my damage now, would not kill the person even if he does not use a single potion and i get to stack a full perfect stack (x3 flame, x1 burst, x1 meteor, x1 fire fury) would no longer kill him, ill repeat that, WITHOUT POTTING.

And that is the issue with this, they go from a target who can use buffs and still be killable but it makes it alot more difficult, to being able to tank entire stacks while slow potting and their hp will never drop below 50%, that is without desaus, if they then wear desaus, it becomes even worse.

[stubi]

Hey Stubi here,

basically everything is already said,

the archer kit is a bit overloaded and has to be adjusted *cough* mana bow end game *cough*

so yeah +1 for not stacking buffs since rms cant stack their buffs aswell

[dear_dieforme]

lol.90%ppl play a arhcer ,bcuz high dmg defend magic defend,high hp .  so  i called it TB of archer

[Kratos]

Killed archer class. Archer very bad mdef. İ remember HETB archer mdef good.  Here bad mdef.

[IKuPAI]

I think the reality of the situation is that nobody wants to play a black mage at 160 cuz they don't get pkp

[Shenji]

no1 wants to play black mage at 160 because noob gear jewelry = noob level vit...the ACTUAL reality of the situation is that archer is Shockdots favorite class. He aint gonna nerf his baby like that!

Edited December 2, 2017 by Shenji

[IKuPAI]

11 hours ago, Shenji said:

no1 wants to play black mage at 160 because noob gear jewelry = noob level vit...the ACTUAL reality of the situation is that archer is Shockdots favorite class. He aint gonna nerf his baby like that!

Everyone seems to think full fab/black touch g6 jewlery is the only way to make a 160 black mage.

[Reuho]

7 hours ago, IKuPAI said:

Everyone seems to think full fab/black touch g6 jewlery is the only way to make a 160 black mage.

 

well yeah thats the mind set of this population, when there is no real complexity to classes. just glass cannons or "tank" .

Beside you who is the only white-mage i have ever known since Gray of HETB. We need re-work and and more options for classes.

 

and now i see you rocking an archer lmao

[IKuPAI]

5 hours ago, Reuho said:

 

well yeah thats the mind set of this population, when there is no real complexity to classes. just glass cannons or "tank" .

Beside you who is the only white-mage i have ever known since Gray of HETB. We need re-work and and more options for classes.

 

and now i see you rocking an archer lmao

Yeah, we... Didn't abuse white mage, but the lack of interest in white mage that our opponents had lead to a major nurf rendering white mage completely undesirable.

 

Archer is now the #1 support classes, aswell as glass cannon hybrid.

[Onionbear]

Mdef buff stacks just fine on a Binah shield or Valkrie protector with no loss of attack.  Some block rate loss.

Archers have no mdef gear.  The buff is all they have and they pay for it in attack.