Archers And Spiritual buffs(Sylph mostly)

[keke8929]

I would like to address a issue that is happening on Season3, since the change to Sylph.

 

What was changed? The Ability Sylph cannot be stacked with Mdef scroll anymore. Why was this introduced? Due to the fact A endgame archer could reach 900 Magic Defense(And above), while you could still die, it was very hard and it usually required either a heavy mage stack(4+ mages), or a two damage type composition against you. Since you cant use Oread and Sylph at the same time.

So, now that Sylph can't stack anymore. You have 3 Options.

Option 1.  Not use Mdef scroll , which is a +10% Of your current mdef, so lets say your base with "okay" gear is roughly 660-680. So thats +68 Mdef from the scroll. Use Sylph is +100. A total of +32 mdef over the scroll, and LOSE ALESIDE or OREAD. Pretty stupid idea to even do this atm.

 

Option2. Use Oread and Mdef TC Scroll as a defensive setup at all times, since oread is very strong...and mdef scroll is basically just as strong as sylph, why would u lose pdef to gain a bit of extra mdef, if you can have best of both worlds.

 

Option3. Use TC Mdef Buff and Aleside as a offensive spiritual setup. This is ofcourse viable, but you are vunerable to both damage types, physical and magical.

 

So, this creates 2 issues. One, archers don't even have a "OPTION" to pick between Pdef, Mdef, or AP. Its basically Pdef or AP. So it removed the dynamic of spiritual buffs out of the game, quite boring.

 

Issue number2, which i think is quite significant. Every single archer uses oread permanently now ....so all the melee classes are now at a disadvantage, since the archers will never not use OREAD in PVP. I mean if you use Aleside you better be a god, but there isn't even a chance to be like, okay this archer is on sylph, maybe our blade/fist/archers can kill him. Nope hes just oread all the time.

 

I suggest putting back Sylph's ability to stack with Mdef scroll, but tune down the bonus sylph gave.  Old bonus was +100 , way too much , since we're reaching quite crazy levels of Mdef through endgame jewlery made by supremes and just 14 mdef sets g12.

Make sylph add +50Mdef, and keep it there as a option for archers to use Mdef spiritual buffs.  If you are an archer and you aren't a owner of some good desaus, if you arent full vit build, and you dont have a FULL 8 mdef jewlery set, without sylph, you most likely cannot withstand a mage combing you in PVP, due to low HP pool.

 

So basically,  Give back sylph at +50 Mdef, Stacking with Mdef scroll.

 

[GUESS123]

I agree, archers should have a option to pick between Mdef, Defense or AP.

I think its bullshit we must only use OREAD as defensive option, or aleside offensive.

 

The Slyph Mdef spell should be added back but nerfed bonus from +100Mdef to +50Mdef like Enemy said.

 

[Kratos]

I agree. 

I want to add. Slyph and Oread %100.come back.

[IKuPAI]

If I remember correctly the community as a whole said that Archer's versatility in defense comes from the fact that they have to choose between pdef and mdef, yet all classes have a stacking mdef bonus if chosen to do so;

Binah

Valk

Provinence

Humble

Sylph

Edited May 12, 2018 by IKuPAI

[Fisterknightbla]

Providence and humble are not viable items if there is one physical player facing you.

Why not make black shield and fire shield stackable with tc buffs then lmao ?

It's too early to ask a change on sylph, high level archers survive to mages right now, let's see in a few weeks.

You are too used of archer being able to get ridiculous amount of DAM.

[ivmich300]

8 hours ago, Fisterknightbla said:

Providence and humble are not viable items if there is one physical player facing you.

Why not make black shield and fire shield stackable with tc buffs then lmao ?

It's too early to ask a change on sylph, high level archers survive to mages right now, let's see in a few weeks.

You are too used of archer being able to get ridiculous amount of DAM.

I agree the game already has only a few mages so not sure why this is even a topic. a 11.5k rm was doing like 200s to archers when they could stack now you got 20k hp how are you gonna die taking 200s making them not stack was best option. maybe instead of sylph allow gnome to stack with a mdef scroll

[Onionbear]

I personally never saw why it would be any different than stacking with a binah or valkrie but whatever, just leave it alone and see how it plays out.

Either way, please do not nerf sylph like you did oread.  Sure it fixes some issue with a elite archer with 8 jewelry, 16 gear, g3 desaus, maxed soul charms and earings but it just screws the average player with basic gear and no desau or charms that is no where near "660-680" mdef.  This game is getting so geared to the "end game" elite it is no wonder the average players don't last.

[Kratos]

Your goal is mage battles ? Keep going nice..

[keke8929]

22 hours ago, Fisterknightbla said:

Providence and humble are not viable items if there is one physical player facing you.

Why not make black shield and fire shield stackable with tc buffs then lmao ?

It's too early to ask a change on sylph, high level archers survive to mages right now, let's see in a few weeks.

You are too used of archer being able to get ridiculous amount of DAM.

High level archers survive to mages because of level diffrence and there is no real strong mages on the game outside of Deleted, and TARTUFFE.  

Just doing simple math, you cannot fight 2 or more mages at all with a archer currently, because if their AP is any decent, you will get hit 4-5k per spell and 8-10k furys.

Now try going non maxvit build and not 3x g3 desau and survive ONE simple combo.  I agree reaching 900dam with average14mdefse with full8jewls was a bit too high.

 

13 hours ago, ivmich300 said:

I agree the game already has only a few mages so not sure why this is even a topic. a 11.5k rm was doing like 200s to archers when they could stack now you got 20k hp how are you gonna die taking 200s making them not stack was best option. maybe instead of sylph allow gnome to stack with a mdef scroll

 

11.5k RM doing 200 dmg? What world do you live in?

14Mdef set, 8Mdef X4 Ring, 8Mdef X2 Band + MDEF Scrol = 800mdef.

 

800*0.75 = 600 Mdef Debuffed.

 

11500*0.4  = 4600 Per spell and 9200 Fury damage.

9 hours ago, Onionbear said:

I personally never saw why it would be any different than stacking with a binah or valkrie but whatever, just leave it alone and see how it plays out.

Either way, please do not nerf sylph like you did oread.  Sure it fixes some issue with a elite archer with 8 jewelry, 16 gear, g3 desaus, maxed soul charms and earings but it just screws the average player with basic gear and no desau or charms that is no where near "660-680" mdef.  This game is getting so geared to the "end game" elite it is no wonder the average players don't last.

 

Sylph needs a adjustment to 50 mdef. But in my opinion archers NEED a option to use mdef spiritual skills. Their HP is nerfed, any build other than full vit is purely unviable.

660-680 Mdef is actually EASILY reachable by even a +8 set and 6mdef rings. This isnt elite mdef lol. Point is 660-680 mdef is pure shit when u get debuffed, you are instantly dead.

 

 

I'm pretty sure you guys are missing the point.  The issue here is archers completely lost their spiritual buff diversity, plus the fact they cannot play against equal geared mages at all because you just get instant nuked, and whats ur choice? use naiad for +1000hp? or use aleside? In the current no sylph spiritual option, archers seem to be forced to focus mdef on gear completely while ignoring pdef, relying on oread to cover the pdef deficit. Doesn't seem logical. Every class has a mdef option, and each of those options is a sacrifice.

 

Binah -> Sacrifice Blockrate & Murciel buff if you use G12sword.

Valkyre-> Sacrifice BLockrate or AP Protector.

Mdef Gown/Garment -> Put yourself at risk to physical completely.

Archer -> Sacrifice either Aleside AP or Oread Defense to increase magic defense.

 

This topic isn't "Give back +100mdef sylph". Because I think it was actually too strong, but honestly, if its +50. That means a strong mage will be still hitting 3000-3500s on endgame geared archer ( full 8 jewls etc). And if the archer decides to push FULL 17 MDEF SET in order to reach 900 mdef , don't they kinda deserve it?

 

 

[Onionbear]

So what your saying is this game is not meant to be played casually.  If you have a life or, god forbid, play other games then don't bother with this game.  It is not meant for you and you will just be fodder.

It is designed for players where a full 9/8 set is easy. (It took me a year to get and that was only thanks to my brother giving me pieces). Full 8 jewels.  Never gonna happen.  Still working on a full 7/6 set that I have been building since the beginning.  One more ring to go.

So the strong mage hitting 3-3.5K on the +14 set +8 ringed archer, which is just the norm of course, will absolutely slaughter the +12 set 7/6 jewelry wearing noob with no TC buffs and only +50 sylph.  Tc buffs should not be considered the norm.  The character should be usable without them and I don't think nerfing to +50 mdef just so it can stack makes much sense unless using sylph causes you to lose your mdef scroll. It really shouldn't.  You should be able to switch to sylph when you need that extra +32 mdef (or much more for us weaker players) then back to oread or alseide if needed.  The scroll would remain but just be ineffective while sylph is in use.

I still say leave it as is with sylph at 100 and non stacking.  The archer does have the option of a strong mdef at 100, pdef or attack.  You want to add some mdef to your oread, scroll away.  I thought the stacking was only prevented on sylph.  You want extra mdef, stack it with gnome.

 

[GUESS123]

this player onionbear is not even playing high lvl content so i dont know what he is saying tbh

[ivmich300]

yawnnn

Edited May 24, 2018 by ivmich300

[Kratos]

up

[Onionbear]

On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎24 at 11:36 AM, GUESS123 said:

this player onionbear is not even playing high lvl content so i dont know what he is saying tbh

What I am saying is that these "fixes" being suggested for "high lvl content" are still applied to the average or low level players.  Some of these players depend on a powerful mdef without using tc buffs just to survive mobs let alone pvp.  

You need to consider the impacts to all players and not just the "end game", maxvit build with 3x g3 desau archer with boat loads of tc buffs.

Edited May 26, 2018 by Onionbear
Typo

[IKuPAI]

1 hour ago, Onionbear said:

What I am saying is that these "fixes" being suggested for "high lvl content" are still applied to the average or low level players.  Some of these players depend on a powerful mdef without using tc buffs just to survive mobs let alone pvp.  

You need to consider the impacts to all players and not just the "end game", maxvit build with 3x g3 desau archer with boat loads of tc buffs.

I do agree.

 

I tried to stay out of this discussion because enemy seems to be feeling a heavy impact on gameplay...

If anything, TC mdef buff should give a progressively smaller scaling boost... And the sylph nurfs can both be reverted. go back to 5% boost, and let it stack.

This way sylph will have a raw bonus for those f2p players, and players who refuse to use TC... And in turn the tc mdefs will affect all classes in a way that 600 mdef could gain +50, while 800 mdef would gain +30... maybe a minimum of 900 mdef scaling to +20 mdef from tc buff.

 

this can also provide opportunity for white mages to make more impact on teamplay requiring higher geared players to utilize their buffs to reach 100% mdef.

Edited May 26, 2018 by IKuPAI

[keke8929]

Lol reverse TC buff scaling would only result in Sylph buff being put back at +50Mdef completely useless. 

 

17 hours ago, Onionbear said:

What I am saying is that these "fixes" being suggested for "high lvl content" are still applied to the average or low level players.  Some of these players depend on a powerful mdef without using tc buffs just to survive mobs let alone pvp.  

You need to consider the impacts to all players and not just the "end game", maxvit build with 3x g3 desau archer with boat loads of tc buffs.

 

Nado archers suffer from the exact same issue currently, non stackable mdef buff on nado archers leaves you with a maximum of 600-640mdef base FULL +9 Set. Even lower with a just +8 set.  Can you explain how would Sylph being Stackable on nado also with mdef scroll be a negative impact to "lower level zones" ? Archers are dying to mages across ALL level zones, not just 300.  And if you REFUSE to use TC Buffs ( a simple Mdef scroll ) when encountering mages in PVP, you are basically shooting yourself in the foot before a marathon then complaining you didn't win.  

I think you don't understand. For a archer to survive against EQUALLY geared Lv300 mages(lets say 2). You need: Lv300, MAX VIT, X3 G2 Desau, FULL 14 or 15mdef set.  FULL 7 or 8 mdef jewlery(rings+bands) , and you will be potting THREE KEYS, unable to fight properly because your HP is jumping from 100% to 10% each combo they do on you, while you are completely maxed out. If the mages are near endgame AP, you will simply die in 1 combo from both of them.  Now try focusing some defense on your gear, or god forbid, think about going some stats into DEX so you can actually be a kill threat, i mean ur playing a ARCHER, DAMAGE CLASS. Building like a tank.  Survival Battles.

 

 

There is two simple solutions, and one comes with a problem.

 

Solution 1.  Add Sylph back at +50 stackable ~  682MDefArcher base =  682*1.1+50 = 800 Mdef  Total Gain 68+50=118  Doublestacked Sylph+Mdef scroll would surpass a "125sylph" after 750base mdef,  BASE MDEF is almost impossible to push past 750, or even up to 750 is insane gear.

 

Solution 2.  Buff Sylph to +125 Mdef  nonstackable = 682 Mdef Archer base = 682+125 = 807Mdef   Total gain 125

But Solution2 issue is at lower levels of mdef you are gaining a undeserved bonus from that Sylph since even if your mdef isnt high to start with you are gaining 125, while with the TCBuff+Sylph50 stack  you'd need a very high base to reach a bonus of 125 total.   Now you'd be getting 125 mdef even if your set is +7.  Ok that kinda helps the newbies but I think the current progression curve where you attempt to push your mdef higher in order to gain a bigger bonus from the scroll is good. Plus this causes a issue of archers swapping buffs midpvp. Ok you are Sylph , you guys kill the mages, next threat is weak players -> swap to Aleside quickly -> there is no mdef scroll on you due to sylph not stacking -> a mage comes back BOOM UR DEAD.

With mdef scroll stacking with sylph you are still full TC  buffed midfight swapping to Aleside or Oread.

 

So yeah.....Sylph at +50 is the simplest and cleanest solution.  Also why do I think this is such a problem. Well as we all know 201+  Physical Melees can't pvp without archers being present, especially to kill mages. But mages kill the archers instant = melee cant kill the mage so mage=god ? THere is no rock paper scissor in this situation. 
 

 

 

 

[IKuPAI]

I find irony in this...

We were previously in a situation where archer+physical could take out 8-12 players at once...

Now there's a situation where 1v2 archer can't tank 2 mages...

 

This looks pretty balanced. I hope game masters wait for more level 300s to make a change to this.

[ivmich300]

ironic how this post was made once a few of us caught up to the level bracket but prior no complaints were made... why buff a archer let them get 25k hp the best trans skills in the game the highest damage per shot and debuff for 3/4 of the community and now buff them so they can be the next tank class.... yes 160 and 200 archer needs a rework but 201+ they are fine as they are its not that archers aren't able to tank it' the fact we time our combos our wide fury and fire fury to land at same time.... pointless post please remove

[keke8929]

Once a few of you caught up? Post was made May 11. nearly 3 weeks ago. near max mdef lv300 archer shouldnt be getting almost 1hit by a combo from lv275mages

 

10 hours ago, IKuPAI said:

I find irony in this...

We were previously in a situation where archer+physical could take out 8-12 players at once...

Now there's a situation where 1v2 archer can't tank 2 mages...

 

This looks pretty balanced. I hope game masters wait for more level 300s to make a change to this.

Its been tested vs level 300 mages, guess what, the archer gets killed in 1 combo unless hes potting 3keys+mouse. What I find ironic is , someone who cant surpass a nado fist's AP on a lv280+ fist is speaking about endgame balance.

Edited May 28, 2018 by keke8929