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Winkou

Red mage ?

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Winkou

Hello everyone,

I'd like to present you red mages main problems, its limits and compare it to other classes.

  1. Charms

There are three types of charms in the game atm : Hosan/Desau/Soul. We'll discuss about the first two.

A red mage shouldn't wear hosan charms (if he upgraded his mental command skill), it flat increases the mana pool and so it increases the mage weakness to mana steal. The base mana pool is enough to just cast spells + there is mana saver.

Desau charms has pros and cons when it comes to mages :

  • + It extends your effective hp so it makes you theorically tankier.
  • - When you take hits, it first goes to the desau hp aka the non mana barrier affected pool of hp => desau shouldnt be wear in pve situation.
  • - Since desau hp are not affected by mana barrier and yet displayed the same way as the rest of the hp pool, when u take hits your hp pool goes crazy : A 300 redmage has around 4k hp base + 3k hp scroll + 1k trans that's 8k hp affected mana barrier, add on this let's say 3k hp from desaus, that's 37,5% of your hp pool that you see going down very fast making you believe you're getting rekt when you're not => you pot excessively hard.
  • - A TC marvelous potion restores 1.5k hp, mana barrier affected or not. So if i'm potting on my hp mana barrier affected i'm restoring with one potion 3 750 effective hp when i'm actually restoring 1 500hp on my non affected mana barrier hp pool => if i have 8k hp mana barrier + 3k hp desau it will seriously reduce the effectiveness of my potions.

Not to mention all this also applies to HP Earrings.

       2.Stats

A physical class (Fist/Blade/Archer) has a lot of balancing to do when it comes to its offensive stats : It's about AP/Crit/Attack speed/Attack success rate. There's always a stat to upgrade, making the stat cap of the class very very high.

When it comes to Red mage and also Blue mage, you can work on your AP and... sadly that's it.

There used to be a time Dexterity stat was giving a serious bonus in terms of magic attack speed for a mage.

Here's an illustration : 

 

This video shows a 259 red mage dpsing FL Bosses. It occured during Season 1. As u can see the red mage is 1 250 yellow (it uses level 10 scrolls as displayed on the bar) it wears an ultima staff and uses meteor shower therefore the character is statted as followed : 148 STR 370 DEX 372 VIT 700 RED 1250 YELLOW. He's also under blaze.

Here's my 300 Red mage statted 192/390/654/900/1250 in the same conditions than Invest :

 

The difference of attack speed is VERY easily noticeable.

It's even hard to actually know if yellow scroll attack speed is worth the investment.

So basically a red mage can only work on his AP, it will require the maximum AP to actually manage nuking down a player with 2-3 spells and fire fury since it can't attack fast enough.

Let's do some maths again :

A 12 DAM Fist Set is Boots +83 DAM Helmet +83 DAM Vambs 2x +83 Armor +88 DAM Edge 9 DAM +54 DAM 2x +7DAM Band +84 DAM 4x +7 DAM Ring +168 DAM with TC buff that's a total of 799 Defense against magic.

If you're called Deleted you have a 17/12 Staff a 9 msa neck 2x 8 ma bands a 1k soul charm a pet 100 and you're full red statted. This brings you to a total of 13k ap when you're yellow buffed and TC ap buffed. Let's not forget 13k AP is the maximum of the damage range.

The fist is 799 DAM tc buffed so that's 617 defense against magic under red touch aka your burst edge is dealing a maximum (which never happens the range is wide) of 4.9k damage so your fire fury hits at 9.8k.  Realistically on this fist you're dealing a combo of around 20k damage if all your hits are on the maximum of your damage range (don't forget we are speaking of a maxed RM maybe not the staff but 13k AP is REALLY HEAVY).

So a really heavy AP red mage is dealing 20k damage on a basic fist set (12 DAM G12 SET 7 jewelry 9 DAM edge) when the fist probably has more hp than this.

Even if you give this redmage 1k more AP you will only deal +1.5k damage in the total combo.

Red mage can only work on their AP and yet it's not enough due to the high mitigation brought by the G12 sets.

If attack speed would be the same for me than for Invest, I'd highly invest into dexterity in order to get more skills in my combo, I would sacrifice my ap for attack speed, it would also give me movement speed which would allow me fighting fist for instance more easily.

    3.The staff

Since upgrade rates changed, it's quite easy to obtain a 17 single stat weapon. We are currently on average running around with 17 MSA 12 MA Ablaze Staffs. Of course we can grind better weapons but let's keep it with 17/12 for this illustration.

A 17/12 Staff is requiring +44 STR/+82 DEX/+200 Red than an ultima staff. If u compare 148/308/900 red +10 ultima staff 192/390/900 17/12 G12 staff it's a difference of +650 BASE (no multiplier involved) AP.

So you're trading 650 AP BASE for 15% proc rate RT, how's that acceptable in G12 era AKA Teamwork ERA. Every class get either boost on their stats or teamwork effects on weapons but the Red Mage actually has a solo pvp effect, which is lowering his AP and also requiring way more stats than a way more powerful AP wise weapon. You're using a solo pvp weapon reducing your potential of dexterity stat points (+200 red = -200 dex, but I guess the stat is clearly not working so it's fine).

I admit, we can grind better weapons, but as shown in last illustration 1k ap won't help me against average magic defense player. Attack speed would help me.

Since dexterity is not working why not change Ablaze staff effect to either a burning effect (raw damage/second) or maybe like fist and blade increasing offensive stats (I would suggest Attack speed) ? It would also re-create the BM need.

   4. BM RM PVP comparison

Speaking about BM need, why did BM become a dead class actually ?

The stick is providing such a range damage boost with this crit on crystals, I will even put this : BM became stronger than RM in terms of range damage, I don't think we need to compare BM and RM melee damage anyway.

If Bm gets a PvE boost (blizzard as request by BM players), it will seriously end red mage class.

   5. MSA/MA Balancing

Let's keep it simple : MA is worthless, it's definitely not worth the risk of breaking any item. 

About G12 Staff based on AP gain per level of MA past 10, you're seriously considering going 18/12 rather than 17/14 or even 17/15 despite of how easy it is going to 15 on weapons now.

About G11 jewelry : 9 MSA Neck is a must but then you gotta ask yourself about Bands if you rather have a 9 MA or a 9 DAM or even a 9 DROP imo i'd rather go for 9 DAM since 9 MA won't bring much AP and the mitigation will just nullify it.

Balancing a bit more MSA MA would create more versatility in the builds at least for the G12 staff but also it would force the mages going for 9 MA Band, which is completely ignored right now.

   6. Fire marrow/Ice marrow

Balance more fire marrow/ice marrow drops in the favor of ice marrow, discouraging BM from playing the class.

  7. RM in Civil war castle

It's clearly impossible to play red mage in the castle due to the fact you somehow stand still on other's computer screen when you're actually trying to run away. Ending up on getting slaughter in seconds.

  8. Physical yellow mage

Can PSA/PA on yellow staffs + Crit rate (replacing mana recovery) on garment happen one day ?

  9. 3k hp scroll

300 RM almost getting rekt by any 200-250 if it doesnt use 3k hp scroll ? Base hp of a 300 rm is 4k hp so a 3k hp scroll almost x2 my hp...

Suggestion : change the buff to desau style and make base rm hp higher to compensate. Bored to use 3k hp scroll to survive anything.

MAKE RED MAGE GREAT AGAIN

 

Thanks for reading, u can pm me ingame at Moltres_0 or discord RaVe if you wanna discuss this subject with me.

Please @shockdot read this carefully, this is a very serious issue.

 

Edited by Winkou

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SENSEI

Moltres i Agree on that. and i just wanna note they should take away so u cant buff a rm with warm others if they have the tc buff or make so u can stack warm others on Fire Charge cause if i wouldve pked in 1v1 a rm they can just buff me with warm others so i loose more then 1k ap.

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Kookz11

Looks as though there can definitely be a bit of reworking done on the late game RM

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itskanoran

I completely agree with this post. I'm one of the top rm players and I honestly can say I won't touch this class season 4 unless things get changed.

 

regarding jewels I think a slight fix would be changing the bands from MA to MSA just like how a physical class has psa bands and psa pa neck why do mages get only ma on bands.

 

now for cost of materials I can say before I quit again v3 legit seemed like it got nerfed from season 2 to season 3 in terms of farming seph cloth. you legit had to have 300+ drop to maybe get around 60 a hour but if solo farming gc you can get roughly the same + other mats worth selling or trading. I'm not sure the rate of v4 but I can say for a mage 25 cloth for 1 staff so 1 hour of farming for 2 staffs maybe you get msa probably not. it seems like it's to much cost for mages to make g12s. yeah they can farm fast but it's really expensive in terms of scrolls buffs and pots to fail to make items. same with blade and fist imo the cost of their items need to be changed as well a archer is fine 15 cloth and 8 of each scale is very easily obtainable.

 

Now a lot of the above topics djaul talked about I said before and always get bashed for saying the charms stuck mages have to be Tc buffed etc. 

As for blue mage it became a dead class simply because of cost. anyone who plays knows if the market dies your simply stuck having to p2p to be a mage or selling everything mad cheap.

this last suggestion is never gonna happen but I want to know how a blue mage can do some serious output long range and has INSANE close combat also but a rm if any class stands in your face you legit won't kill them unless somehow you get the luckiest timed proc and they don't heal. easy fix would be to buff or change dragonbreath cause honestly who the fuck uses that lol

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