ivmich300 Report post Posted June 13, 2018 is there going to be a update that makes mages viable again? you changed meteor shower so rm cant kill someone in their face. you change mana rebirth then mana barrier then make desau charms useless on a mage. now let's talk season we got stomped early on till we got 280+ and gear then we start to communicate our combos and demolish top players and archers. So you buff archer mdef okay we managed so archers needed perfect combos now to kill once dead we kill the rest. Now you change pdef rates when mage already has the lowest pdef in game. so I'm curious yes if a group of mages are online all maxed out they can win but when your doing like 20k combos on 260 archers and they easily live well you soon drop cause not much you can do to prevent it. Let's talk hp this season almost every single archer blade and fist is sitting around 20k hp which is easy to tank a mage no problem with but they have so much cause they can use desau charms with no worry of taking more damage and still do insane damage to others. a mage you can either be high ap and get some kills but die easily orrrrr high hp and sacrifice all your ap. now I'm not saying these changes weren' needed they very much were but every change has been against mages nothing to benefit them at all. you increase proc rate of red touch but its useless if they can tank you under black touch what's a chance at red touch gonna do.. I think either mdef also needs to be changed or red touch needs to be stronger then black touch keep the proc rate the same dont make it stack with black touch but if you proc red touch it should reduce more mdef then black touch if not then mages might as well not be played unless you can get your entire team to be mages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keke8929 Report post Posted June 13, 2018 Okay heres my view on this. RM/BM is a early~midgame class. When endgame starts appearing, RM or BM needs very heavy AP to nuke people. 12k+. Currently no BM has 12k+ AP on Season3, and if there was one, I assure u it would be dropping everyone. Same for RM tbh. Meteor shower is a PVE skill more or less, Desaus are just as useful on mage as they are on other classes. 20k Combo isnt very challenging ( 3flame2burst1FF 4k4k4k4k4k8k thats 28k combo)~ considering 2-3 mages can cordinate and do that at once, ur looking at pretty big combos. Every class has around 20k~ HP. Its not "easy" to tank a mage with 20k. If you look at my Hau Video , WaxON's HP moves like a equalizer when hit by mages( Even weak ones) If u want to survive vs G3 weapons, 3+ archer squads, blades...maybe use a appropriate garment, not 24/7 Ablaze garm. And I'm sure your physical defense isnt even so high. Black Touch and Red Touch are both really strong, buffing them is completely unnessicary. Most of the mages on the server reached a certain wall and are deciding not to push it, while a lot of physical users are pushing big walls for small rewards, and they are adding up. Plus, if mages were actually so bad, would I really be making a BM right now? When endgame has actually started? I think most mages are just spoiled by Early-Midgame and expect to preform the same when people are equal level and properly geared. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ivmich300 Report post Posted June 13, 2018 you say desaus are useful yet both your tribe mates agree that it's flawed on a mage to have desau they still use them but it's not as viable as it is for every other class and as for making a bm ya ofc won't be hard when you can log in your friends archer or your blade if people don't die to your bm I'm talkin full time playing a mage no blade or archer or fist just a mage I'm sure you'l soon find out what I'm talking about Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockdot Report post Posted June 13, 2018 6 hours ago, ivmich300 said: you say desaus are useful yet both your tribe mates agree that it's flawed on a mage to have desau they still use them but it's not as viable as it is for every other class and as for making a bm ya ofc won't be hard when you can log in your friends archer or your blade if people don't die to your bm I'm talkin full time playing a mage no blade or archer or fist just a mage I'm sure you'l soon find out what I'm talking about It's just as viable as every other class. Without them effecting Mana Barrier, they work EXACTLY like they would with any other class. Think about it lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ivmich300 Report post Posted June 14, 2018 9 hours ago, shockdot said: It's just as viable as every other class. Without them effecting Mana Barrier, they work EXACTLY like they would with any other class. Think about it lol. so your saying avoid to use them in all pve content and only use for PvP? cause say I'm in FL and the archers hit me for 78. I pop on 3 g3s they now do like 500s. Now lower hp more potions use a potion get hit more so stay low hp they do 78s ? that's ideal in your eyes ? same with PvP no matter what u do your 1st damage taken always kills those g3s only viable reason to have them is to cap over 10k hp for when you have no mana barrier other then that it'l cost you more potions having them then it would with none. my idea would be say 3 g3 is 4500 hp make half that 2250 covered by mana barrier and 2250 killed off atleast Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gannicus_1099 Report post Posted June 14, 2018 archer have 1500 vig 2x1000 hp charm for mage win need 3x class for mage die,,,,kanoran stop cry forum rm bm is op, u are noob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shockdot Report post Posted June 14, 2018 17 hours ago, ivmich300 said: so your saying avoid to use them in all pve content and only use for PvP? cause say I'm in FL and the archers hit me for 78. I pop on 3 g3s they now do like 500s. Now lower hp more potions use a potion get hit more so stay low hp they do 78s ? that's ideal in your eyes ? same with PvP no matter what u do your 1st damage taken always kills those g3s only viable reason to have them is to cap over 10k hp for when you have no mana barrier other then that it'l cost you more potions having them then it would with none. my idea would be say 3 g3 is 4500 hp make half that 2250 covered by mana barrier and 2250 killed off atleast It’s more hp, EXACTLY how it is for every other class. As soon as that HP is gone, the damage is changed. So the reason you are using potions, is literally because you have MORE HP & are surviving longer than you would without those Desaus. If you you don’t want to use them because you use more potions, then that’s your mistake lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IKuPAI Report post Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) Seems to me mages are completely disgusted by 500-4500 hp that doesn't even touch their... 14k? 20k? Mana pool... Replenishing your desaus' hp with a marv pot is literally wasting half your marvelous potion... You honestly can't tell me THIS IS THE ANSWER to mages+desaus... Hosans are worthless outside of nado... And mages just insta-sell desaus... Where's the marvelous charm? It's like you're telling a mage "u better use hard pots if you have a desau" Then in the same fight... You better use might potions if you're getting mana stolen... Mage: so... What are marv pots for again? Oh right... Infinate stackable p2w hp/mana restore in pve... Silly me. I had forgotten. Edited June 14, 2018 by IKuPAI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keke8929 Report post Posted June 15, 2018 Why would Desau work any diffrent on mage than it does on any other class? Say one reason lol. Desaus are far from worthless on mages, and hosans arent worthless either if you use them correctly. and kupa mage can use hard+might+marv potions , there is more than 1 potion key. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IKuPAI Report post Posted June 15, 2018 it should work differently on a mage because their health pool is different than physical classes. to force a mage to use health pots for the first 2 hits from their opponent then switch into marvs for the main part of the fight (hovering below 3/4 hp all fight)... then a mana stealer shows up and they now have to use 3 keys all different potions to pot? Just because you can say "hp = hp" doesn't make this right... because hp!=mb hp. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ivmich300 Report post Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) look i get it yes they are useful for 1 thing and that's PvP with no mana barrier. the picture im talking about isnt the fucking hp not sure how enemy and shockdot can't understand this isn't so much about HP but damage taken i'm saying if a archer puts on some desaus are they now taking more damage ??? how about a fist or a blade ???? simple answer is NO it used to be the full desau amount calculated into the mana barrier but when we rolled flawless on tri server it got changed. I'm simply saying pve wise they are not worth it at all... you dont need that hp if your taking more damage anyways you don' let yourself go down to 1/4 hp then use a potion no you try and stay 3/4 to full but with desau all your healing is the extra damage you take... my suggestion is simple think of it like sylph you had it full then removed then re added to half the amount just do the same thing with desau on a mage that way a mage can actually benefit and not take insane damage till the desau hp is gone.. no desau 4k scatter shot add some desau 5k scatter shot lol ur just adding more hp to your pool to take bigger hits costing you more potions. Edited June 15, 2018 by ivmich300 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IKuPAI Report post Posted June 15, 2018 1 hour ago, ivmich300 said: look i get it yes they are useful for 1 thing and that's PvP with no mana barrier. the picture im talking about isnt the fucking hp not sure how enemy and shockdot can't understand this isn't so much about HP but damage taken i'm saying if a archer puts on some desaus are they now taking more damage ??? how about a fist or a blade ???? simple answer is NO it used to be the full desau amount calculated into the mana barrier but when we rolled flawless on tri server it got changed. I'm simply saying pve wise they are not worth it at all... you dont need that hp if your taking more damage anyways you don' let yourself go down to 1/4 hp then use a potion no you try and stay 3/4 to full but with desau all your healing is the extra damage you take... my suggestion is simple think of it like sylph you had it full then removed then re added to half the amount just do the same thing with desau on a mage that way a mage can actually benefit and not take insane damage till the desau hp is gone.. no desau 4k scatter shot add some desau 5k scatter shot lol ur just adding more hp to your pool to take bigger hits costing you more potions. I agree, I insta-sold my Nado desaus on my bm when this change happened... Rather than 100% hp or 50%50% why can't you try out 80%20% for a couple months? instead of just saying... this is this... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kekelordz Report post Posted June 15, 2018 Lol desau was 100% broken on mages before. Lv160 RM 3x g1 desau tanked a 300 archer rofl. Desaus are exactly the same on every fking class holy shit this QQ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IKuPAI Report post Posted June 15, 2018 Apparently you Don't have any idea that mages have low hp and INSANE mana... This desau isn't affecting these classes the same way. 1 side has 15% potions (25k+ hp = 4,000? Hp per potion...) The other side has 5k hp and 20k+ manas... Your argument implies mages can use 15% potions just as effectively as physicals. Can you take ur trash to runescape or some other shit website? Say something constructive or eat a sock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ivmich300 Report post Posted June 15, 2018 enemy says this is qq and yes a 160 rm in a 9 8 set 3k buff 3 g1s could yank your 300 archer and that still can happen lmfao. not to mention don't bring up 160s it was cause u and ur team got destroyed by 4 mages so you made a post begging for it to be changed and quit once we continued. but as I said I don't give a shit if it do or doesn't work in PvP. the pve aspect for a desau on a mage isn't worth it now you stop leaching hau on your naked bm put gear on it put ur desaus on it and tell me it's working perfectly then comment Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keke8929 Report post Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) Naked BM? 15set 17stick ? Very naked. Yeah its QQ because they work exactly the same for every class. I play mage with desaus and don't see any issue with them for real lol Edited June 15, 2018 by keke8929 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IKuPAI Report post Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, keke8929 said: Naked BM? 15set 17stick ? Very naked. Yeah its QQ because they work exactly the same for every class. I play mage with desaus and don't see any issue with them for real lol See, now we're having a conversation ^-^ My issue with desaus on mages is mainly marvelous potions... If this desau config is fair, why don't mages have 30% hp 60% mp pots? While we're on this subject... What was changed first? Desuas !work with mana barrier? Or mana barrier nurf from 30/70 to 50/50? ^both of those changes were appended with "if something isn't right, as always feel free to let us know" Edited June 15, 2018 by IKuPAI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keke8929 Report post Posted June 15, 2018 Its 40-60 not 30-70 right now. And going to 50-50 would make mages 1hits probably lmao There is legit NO ISSUE except the fact you are getting decieved by your HP bar representing danger to death. Simplest fix: Add a new HP Bar ( Above the MENU button) , and make it so the player can either display or hide it. That bar would represent EFFECTIVE HP. So when you lose 4500HP (the desau hp) , your HP bar would move down to half , but the EFFECTIVE HP BAR would move down by a quarter only. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IKuPAI Report post Posted June 15, 2018 I was sure it was put to 50/50... Coulda swore i tested this between s1 and s2... Anyways, that's the right idea... But if desau isn't going to change, then it should work the SAME for all classes... Desau shouldn't affect potions, or mana barrier... Meaning your 15% potions can't boost 700 extra hp per potion... Just like how mages take 2x damage on desaus... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keke8929 Report post Posted June 15, 2018 IT DOES WORK THE SAME FOR ALL CLASSES. They take exactly same damage as any other class into desau HP. Except their regen is lower for those HP points. But what ur not taking into account is when you are potting your desau HP, recovering it, you are causing a situation where you are constantly taking desau HP damage, protecting your mana barrier, and if you are potting Yuba Marvs you are conserving mana and assisting your mana regen that way. So when you are being manastolen+attacked, you possibly have a chance to pot your mana because you are recovering your Desau HP and not taking DAMAGE into mana other than manasteal. Current Mana Barrier and Desau is 100% Fine Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IKuPAI Report post Posted June 15, 2018 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: IT DOES WORK THE SAME FOR ALL CLASSES. Rly? 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: They take exactly same damage as any other class into desau HP. True.. 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: Except their regen is lower for those HP points. That's one difference already... 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: But what ur not taking into account O, okay... 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: is when you are potting your desau HP, recovering it, you are causing a situation where you are constantly taking desau HP damage, Hp damage, with my 1200/1500 combo pots... 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: protecting your mana barrier Wait... Isn't it supposed to protect me? 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: and if you are potting Yuba Marvs 300 hp/mana difference only... Go on... 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: you are conserving mana and assisting your mana regen that way. Assiting my mana regen? Didn't this just lead me down the path of "where you are constantly taking desau hp damage" So... My mana regen for...? My skills? That way when my desau is off I can take "half damage" and use my mana from marvs to ACTUALLY HEAL? 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: So when you are being manastolen+attacked, So... Hp 1 key Marvs on 2/4 Might on key 5... Ok, continue... 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: you possibly Possibly? Wait... I thought this worked the SAME for all classes? 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: have a chance to pot your mana Right... With my 4th potion key... O wait, most players marv 1/2/3... So... My 5th potion key... 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: because you are recovering your Desau HP and not taking DAMAGE into mana other than manasteal. Opening up the opportunity to steal more than 60% of my mana before i can even see my desau isn't being touched... Then my mana barrier drops, and I'm unable to tell the difference between desau and no mana barrier.. 1 minute ago, keke8929 said: Current Mana Barrier and Desau is 100% Fine I mean, sure... In theory... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IKuPAI Report post Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) May aswell just make desaus give mages half hp, do half damage and don't let it touch mana... Same thing... 750 hp g3 desau, totally fair. Edited June 15, 2018 by IKuPAI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IKuPAI Report post Posted June 15, 2018 (edited) 1 15% potion will fully heal 3x g3 desaus While 3x marvelous potions are used to heal 3x g3 desaus... And HALF those potions are wasted on mana that doesn't need to be regenerated. I don't even want to do the math a 15% potion will heal for a mage... Edited June 15, 2018 by IKuPAI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keke8929 Report post Posted June 15, 2018 1 15% Potion fully heals 3x g3 desaus on a 30.000 HP player, which is only blades on ultra endure. Lmao wtf. These shit examples. Mage does not need any fking buffs lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IKuPAI Report post Posted June 15, 2018 Just now, keke8929 said: 1 15% Potion fully heals 3x g3 desaus on a 30.000 HP player, which is only blades on ultra endure. Lmao wtf. These shit examples. Mage does not need any fking buffs lol 25,000 * 15% 10%*25,000=2,500 5%*25,000=1,250 3,750 hp... 3x g3 desau is 4500 hp... 3x marvs... 1500*3=4500... So, what... 1.2x 15% pots fully heals 3x g3 desaus.... You have no solid arguments. You have no power here. Why don't you go be toxic in newbie channel instead and let the actual players handle this. <-notice this does not end with a question mark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
